Greetings

hey all, thought I’d get in here on the ground floor. You all know me from my reddit bot-generated named Big-Contribution 767.

I am a little less than 3 years into this, just wanted a hobby at first, but I have been into good shoes and reading the usual shoe forums for about 20 years or more. I started out like many, into selvedge denim and Aldens and that kind of thing when I was living in Japan back then, and then I experimented with all other manners of being dressed by the internet in the following years. I think I was a little too busy with life to consider the possibility of taking up the hobby of shoemaking until the pandemic, you know how that goes, but now I’m here. I find that I prefer technical discussions about shoemaking, rather than some of the bullying and infighting that occurs on the shopping-based shoe forums like r/GYW, so I rarely read about factory-made shoes anymore.

I don’t have any plans of making the next great shoe or boot company, or even selling anything - I just want to make shoes for family and friends and enjoy the craft purely as a hobby. I see it as something I’d like to continue enjoying as I get older. You never know what the future holds, but that’s been my plan up until now.

I prefer (vaguely) English dress shoes, particularly brogues and formal styles, but want to try making just about every shoe or boot under the sun at some point - I will try cowboy boots eventually too. I think most of the shoes my family has requested of me tend towards the more casual side though, so that is where a lot of my projects will be.

I’m pretty well set up with tools and machines by now, don’t want for much more, but I always need more lasts. I don’t see myself getting into making lasts from scratch, but I am working towards developing a rough model(s) to base my work on from at some point.

I believe that we are still in the infancy of this hobby as a modern revival, and there will be a lot more to come. Things could be very different from now in 10 years, if not 5 years. I have seen the evolution of the collective internet knowledge of shoes from basically nothing worthwhile 20 years ago to the point we are at now, where people have turned arguing about shoe factoids online into a sport. I think with people like us actually making shoes at home, this is the next big evolution of that.

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@cjackson, so glad to have you here!

This was quite the post. There’s so much to discuss here. Hopefully we get to all of it, somewhere down the line.

Intros sure are great.

First off, I’d just like to say that I have personally really appreciated a number of your posts on Reddit. And that was before having any real idea of who you are or how you got into shoes or how long you’ve been at it—in short, without any introduction. I’ve been on Reddit a long time, but I’ve always been on old-school forums before, during, and since. Intros are a part of the older forum world that I really miss, for just this reason.

Discussion Styles, Hopes, and Dreams

I want you and anyone else to know that while I generally intend to my Awesome Moderation Powers as Guy Who Just Happened to Set Up the Forum as sparingly as I can, I am personally way more interested in seeing discussions here veer positive, practical, and very literally constructive. This should be a welcome place for anyone making or repairing shoes. I hope that shared experience, not Internet presence or time spent online, stays the bedrock.

As for /r/goodyearwelt, I’d be lying if I said I don’t check it still, though I’ve less and less reason to. I still very much keep up on what some mass-production manufacturers turn out, and learn a lot from it. I made a recent post revisiting some work boot patterning points, for example. I’m hoping Red Wing trickles out more information on its 224 last with the recent re-release of their “Beckman” model. But the consumer-side chatter on these topics is a whole different matter. I’m not really interested in that, either.

@cjackson, I hope you won’t hesitate a minute to write about the kinds of discussions and resources you’d like to see here on this forum. I’d also encourage you to be “constructively selfish”, starting the kinds of topics you’d like to see without waiting for anyone’s approval or go-ahead. It’s what this place needs right now.

Hobby

This really resonated with me. I am nearing the stage where I really want to start making for others, likely starting with close friends.

The older folks in my life still call me a young man. I’m inching up toward forty. But I’m happy to see lots of examples of shoemakers continuing well into their sixties. I’d love to see a discussion here about ways older shoe and boot makers have tweaked their tools and setups for more comfort and less injury.

Amen, brother.

I won’t pretend to see everything that’s going from a ten-thousand-foot view. But I see the way that remaining custom/bespoke makers in the UK and USA opened up over the last working generation or two, and the way that’s made it easier and far less daring for the casually curious to jump into making, especially with the benefit of videos online. I can speculate that had something to do with the near total massacre of once-thriving domestic mass production, rising concerns about perpetuating the craft, and simple loneliness without many to talk to. Fellow custom makers in those markets probably look an awful more like potential allies than primary competitors these days.

I’m personally hoping the trickle-down effect of all that new sharing leads to some new ideas that eventually end up back in the industry, improving the kinds of shoes nearly everyone can afford.

Welcome! I’m thenewreligion over yonder on reddit too. Just me and Kyle talking to each half the time so grateful for the company! :slight_smile:
I share a lot of the same background but shorter time frame - maybe 2 years ago started looking for a new look that didnt involve basketball shorts and tshirts since i got my first job (at 39 :p) and really liked the selvedge and boots thing, sort of got drawn into all things leather and brass and denim, things that last, things made by hand, things made with skill and art and care but with a distinct utility. The rabbit hole for me before this was analog photography, maybe around 2015 when my first kid was born and i got a good digital camera but immediately got sick of taking 1000 picture to get one good one, always found myself craving more and more control over the creative process by exploring even more manual processes, making my own chemistry, repairing my own cameras. I was doing large format wet plates and constructing lenses from menisci and all that. I hit a wall about 2 years ago, stopped dead for a bit, and I think it’s cause I never felt like I had a deep enough control of the process, it wasn’t ever built from raw enough ingredients for me, to feel like I was truly the creator of any of it. I mean, at its core it’s a processed copy of something you see. And the utility of so much of it was nil. Wet plates were cool because they really do endure, and the execution of the process is a dance that needs skill and timing and thinking on your feet, and every once in a while you would capture a really special moment for someone they would be able to keep going back to, and then I felt like I was doing something important for someone I cared about. But mostly it felt like I was following a recipe and it felt creatively hollow. So around that time I got my first Alden loafers, Russell boots, Parkhurst boots, and feel quickly under the spell of needing to understand how they were constructed and patterned and all that. Started making mocs for the girls, then sprouted into the other small hand sewn leather goods. Also at the same time I got my first cowboy boots (ironic because I’m from the south and grew up raising cattle, we just wore bean boots and tennis shoes), china-made ariats, mostly for work. But I liked the look, the swagger, the attention darnit, and the more I read about the history, the dogma of traditional construction, the laser focus on function and durability, then what it had transformed into over time - a unique form of personal expression, an encapsulation of a dying culture I had grown up in, one of the truly american art forms; and seeing how broadly modern masters could create and explore within in what is at first glance a simple form, and that might seem limited in its variations to fancy stitching and inlaid flowers and wingtips and exotic leathers… Even making a simple clean 4-panel boot, doing that well could be the study of a lifetime. Yet people like Dunn and Miller, the fine folks out in Guthrie, the new generations sharing their process and progress and even blunders on instagram and facebook (Knight and Houston and Parker and Christo and Van Curen and Buckert and Guerin and Lauw and Pascal and Holly Henry and Wes Shugart and on and on) show that beyond mastery are so many avenues if expression, and so many ways to make the form truly your own, and more than other forms of shoemaking (although Amara HW gives them a run for their money) they can be a specific reflection of who the owner is and how they want to be seen. Anyway, I realized at some point that although I love a good stitchdown PNW or derby or loafer, and maybe I’ll try one, I want to commit myself to learning the truly american gentle craft. I don’t think I’ll ever be done learning within that one facet of boot and shoemaking, or run out of new things to try. And same here, I really just want to make for the people in my life, people I know well, so each one can be a really personal gift of time and effort and hopefully the fit and function as well as the form and pattern will be part of its value to them.
Tldr; its cowboy boots for me but shoes are fun too

But yes to your other point, it’s really neat to see the next stage after the explosion of information in the last 10-15 years, is getting it organized when motivated people like Kyle here commit the time to do it, and the people with the means motive and opportunity start making and talking. Im not sure everyone’s gonna have a landis in their basement, but the number if makers seems to be at a critical mass, and the ease of finding each other has reached the point, that it probably doesnt feel as lonely or hard to find advice and info as it once did.

In that respect I feel fortunate to get started when I did. Other than coming just a little after some of the great makers and teachers have passed. At least in the boot world, I feel an urgency to meet as many of the old masters as I can. I was lucky to spend a day with Paul Krause, but I won’t get to talk to DW, or Chappell, or Tex Robins, Jack Reed, Duck Menzies, Kimmel, Dave Little, Alan Bell, James Leddy, Glen Meeks. What I wouldn’t give to learn to make a last with Carl Lichte! Unlikely to meet Bill Shanor or Paul Wheeler or many from their generation that are retired. It feels like the history of that world is like sand through a sieve.

Anyway sorry I talked too much about boots and makers. I just think it’s the right crux of art and science and culture and history for me, perfect recipe for a good life-long obsession :wink:

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Lisa pops in now and again, too, and my local shoemaker-cobbler said he’ll hop on when he’s settled back in from family travel.

I’m still moving information over from shoemaking.wiki when I can. All my latest work-in-progress updates are now coming here.

thanks for the warm welcome guys.

Well, it sounds like we are all about the same age, so that’s fun.

I am not sure what goes on over at the SD discord, because I don’t know what a discord is and at this point I’m afraid to ask, but based on results it looked like some of the guys interested in American-stitchdown quasi-PNW boots were able to help each other out over there, at least on that particular type of boot construction. Maybe this board will take on a similar flavour, but with cowboy boots? I enjoyed the posts over on HCC boards, and saw how there was a bit of evolution to the collective knowledge there over the many years that posting was happening, which was fun.

@thenewreligion , absolutely, I love the amount of control over the process that shoemaking demands. I am always thinking of new hobbies I could take up to expand the mind a bit, but nothing else has struck me worth doing since taking up shoemaking - this stuff is intense! At some point I had wanted to dabble in making some good selvedge jeans, but you know what? After making shoes and going so hard getting all the details, tools, and machinery tracked down and dialed in, I know in my heart that I’d be disappointed if I didn’t go to the same level of passion with jeans, and good heritage-style jeans virtually require a speciality unobtanium machine for every other seam. I just wouldn’t be happy with jeans done on a plain straight stitcher at this point. Sounds crazy but shoemaking has infected me with that kind of madness. So I shall continue on the shoes for now, since there is still so much to be learned and tried.

@kemitchell I think I’ve observed some differences in the demographics where we are already - people of our age 20 years ago didn’t have 20 years worth of deep internet archives to get stuck into, and we are often the first demo to take on stuff like this as a hobby when going solely by research without teachers, and it’s hard! You see some Gen Z already trying out shoemaking alongside us, and I notice they are both fearless and bold, and at times more impatient with the process, compared to Millennials and older. I think that’s the difference between growing up with just books and sometimes resigning yourself to waiting until the info comes along and presents itself like we had to do in the old days, versus being born with all of the world’s information and sellers conveniently in your pocket. It really makes you appreciate how some of the old heads basically worked in darkness over the course of years, figuring it out alone or working through the traditional tradesman streams.

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I love that millennials are finally becoming the old heads haha. For most of my life it’s been a term of dismissal of anyone my age as flighty and superficial. Now we are the patient ones who remember the times of corded phones and interest groups that met at the community center and looking something up at a library. Then again that’s probably been the experience of every generation. What a whiplash it must have been to have the emphasis on Baby when you were young, then Boomer when you get old :slight_smile:

I do want to apologize to Kyle if we flood him with cowboy boot people at first, I think it’ll balance out later, but i think boot makers generally skew older (just a vague impression im far from sure) and probably have more patience for a forum format. I think the wiki will be the draw. I wonder if there will come a point where we will find it useful to create a cowboy megatopic, but i also think the running together of shoe and boot concepts produces great new ideas and work. Look at Bliskava, Paul Krause, Lisa Sorrell, Lee Miller, Frommer, Dominic Casey, Janne Melkerson, George Koleff, Amara Hark-Weber I can’t think of everyone - makers who have done some of both or at least have deep knowledge of both, you can see the lines blurring externally, and they must blur to some degree internally too, and at some point for those makers it maybe becomes a continuum. I especially love watching riding boot makers, it’s like watching a european shoemaker who saw a picture of a cowboy boot and used the methods at hand to get there :wink:

I’m a member and pop in there most days. It was both one of my biggest inspirations and one of my greatest hesitations in spinning up this new, public forum.

A “Discord server” is just a collection of computer chat rooms. In Stitchdown’s case, it’s a bunch of chat rooms about boot brands, buying boots, sizing, promotions, their annual “Thunderdome” boot beauty contest, and now their annual event in Brooklyn. There is one little channel in the “Off Topic” section for “cordwaining”—it is far from the focus on the operation—but there are some good folks in there.

From what I’ve seen, the makers there are definitely skewed more toward “heritage” or “service” style boots, though not exclusively so. A few folks working at shoe companies are in there, and while some of them are making those styles to sell recently, they’ve much broader experience.

I’ve personally got—and hopefully given!—some good tips there. But part of what inspired me to set up this forum was realizing that none of those conversations would be searchable or findable by anyone not paying a few bucks a month to be a member. We’re doing it again: commiserating in a closed space that can only benefit those involved at the time.

Personally, I also find the chatroom format annoying and restrictive. It’s really hard to search down any particular old discussion. It’s hard enough just keeping track of multiple conversations going on at once.

I haven’t marched in there and flown a flag about coming to have good conversations here instead. Even though the cordwaining chat room is a kind of afterthought there overall, I respect the Stitchdown folks for putting out good blog posts and podcasts, and for bringing people together. I understand the modest monthly fee they charge for access to the server helps fund them putting out that good information, so I’m happy to keep my credit card on file, just to support that.

I would be over the moon to see more cowboy boot makers here. And I don’t see any reason why they couldn’t get along fine with makers focusing on other styles here, too.

It might make sense in the distant future to set up categories specific to particular styles, if folks naturally group up in that way. But that’s a long way off, and I wouldn’t want to do anything to segregate groups proactively.

Just thinking about the makers we’ve referenced and talked about over the last few weeks—Frommer, Sorrell, Miller, Nishimura, Mrsan, Hark-Weber—most of them either do all kinds of shoes or spread out from one style into others. I’ve been on the lookout for more photos of Lee Miller’s chelsea “botinas”, for example. And Frommer’s dress shoes. Mrsan just put out a book all about stitchdown service-style boots.

If you find frommers profile on styleforum and look up his posts there you’ll see a lot of his shoe stuff

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Thanks!