Pair 2: Balmoral-ish Roper Boots

[kemitchell]

This will be me second pair, started earlier this year. As I start this topic, the left is lasted and the right is waiting to be.

I’m doing an original pattern from tape last forms, fully symmetrical. Here’s my design sketch:

The lasts are built-up Greg Carmack GC200 11½A from Sorrell Notions and Findings.

Materials

I’ll keep updating this table as a I go.

For	Used	Source	Notes
Quarter Leather	Seidel, Double Shot, Natural	Rocky Mountain Leather Supply	Note: When Rocky Mountain’s website says “½ Hide”, they mean half of a side, not a full side.
Vamp and Counter Leather	Horween Chromexcel, Black, Craft Grade	Maverick Leather Company	The side I received had a big hole in it, but that’s craft grade for you.
Lining	“Resistance”, Tan	Maverick Leather Company
Tongue Leather	Black Pigskin Split from a Clearance Bin	Tandy Leather San Bruno
Eyelets	Ohio Travel Bag A-348-SB 5.3mm Eyelets with A-401-BP Washers	Ohio Travel Bag
Quarter Thread	Crawford Threads No. 18 Waxed Irish Linen Thread, Natural, 4 Cord, 50 gms	eBay	I don’t believe this is available new anymore. There are other waxed linen threads on the market.
Vamp Joint Thread	Maine Thread Twisted Waxed Cord, 0.045″, Ecru	Maine Thread
Tongue Seam Thread	Maine Thread Twisted Waxed Cord, 0.045″, Black	Maine Thread
Vamp-Quarter Seam Threads	Maine Thread Twisted Waxed Cord, 0.040″, Brown and Twisted Waxed Cord, 0.030″, White	Maine Thread
Last Build-Up	3M Bondo Original Body Filler, Scrap Leather	O’Reilly Auto Parts
Closing Adhesive	Renia Aquilim 315	Sorrell Notions and Findings
Shanks	Model 1242, Steel, Flat, Two-Rib	Panhandle Leather
Pegs	Self-Made Pegs from a Birch Hardwood Sample, Round Bamboo Chopsticks, and Round Birch Meat Skewers	Woodworkers Source for sample, Chanco for chopsticks, Chef Craft for meat skewers	See this topic on DIY pegs.
Outsoles	Leather Sole Bend	Montana Leather
Bottom Cement	Barge All-Purpose	Amazon
Heel Lifts	Large Heel Lifts	Sorrell Notions and Findings
Top Lifts	From 12" by 12" Rubber Sheet, SBR, 70 Shore A	Zoro
Top Lift Nails	D.B. Gurney #14 Iron Shoe Nails	Sorrell Notions and Findings
Edge and Heel Dye	Angelus Leather Dye, Light Brown	Amazon
Heel Nails	D.B. Gurney 8/8 Brass Nails	Sorrell Notions and Findings, sample bag

Build Photos So Far

Last Fitting

Patterning

Closing

Bottoming

[kemitchell]

Notes on some mistakes already made:

Trimming Lining

I tried to trim the quarter lining of the first shoe by just leaving some excess, pulling on it, and trying to cut just deep enough with a knife. So I nicked the turned edge of the upper leather in a few places. Laying a thin steel rule under the lining and cutting over that prevented nicking, but dulled my blade and worked only awkwardly through the curves.

I suspect the better approach here is pulling the lining taught and trimming with a guarded knife like an edge beveler, french skive, welt knife, or feather plow.

Closing Order

I initially stitched the tongue to the vamp, but later unstitched it to stitch the vamp to the counter first.

Counter Seam Margin

I somehow managed to join first counter to beading and vamp only halfway through its seam allowance, leaving the closed upper five millimeters or more longer than planned.

Blood Stains

I knicked a finger skiving a set of quarters, but only bandaged it well enough to stop the bleeding. I got a few drops of blood on the light-brown leather before realizing the bandage was leaking.

Backseams

I chose a stitch for the backseams that was flat on the inside and crossed on the outside, under the baclstraps. A bit like bar lacing for tennis shoes. The flat stitches on the inside created noticeable ribs under the linings, despite the relatively thick lining leather.

For smoother interiors, I should have just pasted the quarters temporarily using a strip of fabric and relied on the cement and stitching of the backstraps for strength.

Advancing One Shoe Alone

I was nervous about giving myself enough lasting allowance, and decided to make and last one whole upper before clicking the vamp and counter pieces for the second. This might have been a good idea, but I wasn’t as thorough enough taking notes about how I made the first upper to be sure I’d make all the same choices again on the second.

I got very, very close in the end. But I spent a lot of time retracing steps and measuring things on the shoe that got ahead. I also just plain skipped looking at my own notes on the thread I’d used on the quarters, mis-remembered, and had to pick and restitch to match.

[thenewreligion]

Haha I think blood stains are an underreported challenge for beginner shoes, we should all start with red leather
Chad little trimming top of liner
Sorry most of my reading is about cowboy boots right now so sorry if this is not relevant

[kemitchell]

@thenewreligion

Haha I think blood stains are an underreported challenge for beginner shoes, we should all start with red leather

I haven’t done a pair without bleeding yet!

[kemitchell]

Couple updates.

Similarity to Old British Ammo Boots

I ran into a video of a World War I reenactor showing some “ammo boots” of the period with balmoral-esque quarters that peak over the vamps at the front tabs and get stitched down. I tried to follow up on the pattern, which the video referred to as “B2”, but the photos here of an original pair show the quarters under the vamps all the way to the fronts, more akin to, say, Timberland waterproof boots.

I’ve seen references to “Commercial Pattern B2” as well as a later pattern B5. But quick searches haven’t turned up any documentation about them…or about patterns B1, B3, or B4.

Mistake: Inner Lining Breaks Away

While pulling liner away from upper to make room for the heel stiffener on one boot of the pair, I accidentally tore the lining away from the seam. I think this probably happened as a combination of sewing just one seam, albeit a saddle-stitched one with heavy waxed thread, trimming the lining too close to the seam, and pulling too hard on the lining to open the pocket.

The best I could think to do was very carefully brush on some contact cement and very carefully press the lining back into place right by the seam. Time will tell whether I’ve managed to last the lining tight or made a big, wrinkled mess.

[kemitchell]

Mistake: Heel Counter Skiving

Quite despite my remembering this was a problem on my last pair and purposing not to do it again, I didn’t skive the bottom of the heel counter for the second boot thin enough. I figured this out at the rather-too-late stage of trimming back the lasting allowance under the heel seat. The cross-section of the counter is definitely still too thick there.

[kemitchell]

Sewing Waists and Heel Seats

First attempt at sewing in waists and heel seats, in anticipation of also wood pegging:

The threads are brown waxed poly tapers from Maine Thread, 7 ply, 72 inches long.

I used a bent CS Osborne saddle harness needle, probably 517-1 or 517-2. I’ve bought and trade their premade curved needles, the 501X Size 3, but the eyes on them are thinner and have constantly broke on me whenever I’ve tried them so far.

You might notice where I went back under the leather at the backs of the heels and shaved down the stiffeners that should have been skived thinner much higher.

Original Plan

I was originally planning to whip stitch the waists and double-need stitch the seats like I’ve seen some French riding boot makers do. So I left the insoles whole through the waists and carved inner channels, but not outside holdfasts, around the heel seats.

Here’s Anthony Delos doing it. And a screenshot:

Change of Plan

In the end, I changed my mind and decided to just follow the method Lee Miller showed and told in the making-of series shot by Kirby Allison here. Single-needle whip stitch through both waist and seat, but twist and double back through the loops in the seat.

Lessons Learned

I tried to start with too thin an awl and snapped it, despite making sure to wet the insole. Breaking an awl is no kind of fun. Neither is digging the tip out from inside the insole under upper and lining.

One of my thicker awls also started to bend under the tension of turning up to pierce back out of the surface of the leather in the seat. I ended up switching to a curved King blade with even more eat through its bend.

It was amazing how much easier that choice of awl blade made the job. Watching that video of Lee Miller again, he starts off pushing the awl down at a really sharp angle, then brings the awl handle down in a hurry.

Frankly, as much as I enjoyed this process, I see why I’ve heard of so many makers just cementing lining, stiffener, and upper leather down to the bottom the insole. I don’t have any crystal ball, but I foresee all this stitching plus wood pegs being pretty massive overkill. I also wonder about piercing through my thread with the pegging awl.

Assuming I was going to stitch, I also wonder why I wouldn’t either carve a channel and pre-pierce holes, if strength were first priority, or alternatively just leave the seat parts and waist parts of the insoles uncarved, if efficiency were first priority. Having the trench carved out toward the midline of the insole made it a lot easier to plunge the awl deeper and still come back out cleanly. It would probably be faster just to skip carving step and pierce from the outside in with the awl in one step.

[kemitchell]

Welting

This remained a very long, hard process. But I am mostly happy with the results, especially since it’s now clear that the toes of these boots will not be wrinkly, muffin-like messes, like my first pair.

Inside out or outside in?

I tried both piercing the uppers, stiffeners, and linings from the inside out and the outside in.

Piercing from the inside out, through the pre-pierced holes in the holdfast, often required me to press the upper down against the insole with a wine cork to get the awl to pierce entirely through the upper. I suppose this could be because I still haven’t got my awl properly sharp, or just because the leather is so thick.

Piercing from the outside in, I felt I worked faster and could get cleaner results. It was easier to get the needle through from the inside out, which was always the harder direction for me, by chasing the awl blade back out. On the other hand, I sometimes misjudged where on the upper to pierce in so as to end up through the existing, pre-pierced holes in the holdfast. I could mark the inner end of each hole on the insole, but some did not go through the holdfast exactly perpendicular.

Still popping holes.

I popped a small handful of holes that I’d pre-pierced in the holdfast.

One I think was just too shallow. Its exit hole was pretty high on the holdfast.

One I think I just pulled way too tight on. I’ve generally preferred just to wrap the thread around my hands and take the callouses. Even so, it seems I managed to go too far.

One I really don’t know how it broke. It was hard to see much of anything under the upper. They sure look like fixes, but I’d rather have that buried under the insole filling than make a stitch doubly long.

A few times, I backed up further toward the midline of the insole, plunged a new hole, and used that instead of the one I’d popped.

RIP Rocky Mountain Inseaming Awl

In a fit of spendy passion, I’d ordered one of these very shapely inseaming awls from Rocky Mountain Leather. It came very pointy, with a nicely shaped haft. But I promptly snapped the tip off the blade on my very first hole.

I’ve sent them an e-mail asking about replacements. I now harbor dark suspicions about the quality of the awl blade metal. But realistically, I have to allow that I’m new at this, and it’s probably my fault.

I switched back to some King awls that I believe I got from George Barnsley. I was surprised to order what seemed like Barnsley awls, only to receive ones marked King. But they seem to be working well. Their thickness where they bend gives me some confidence to put a little leverage on them.

Pleated to flatten around the toe.

I tried a tip I saw in Kirby Allison’s video of Lee Miller welting: rather than slash or wet and bend the welt so as to hold it already flat while sewing around the toe, make a little pleat or pucker so the welt has enough slack to be turned up flat.

I was worried about guessing how much bend to give it so as to flatten out without going wobbly. But in practice I found that easy to figure out by guess and check, holding in place and flipping up and down before piercing.

Not sure about length

I am not yet sure whether I welted enough past the joints. Come to think of it, I think I’ve seen a fair amount of variation on this in well made boots. But I essentially made my choice intuitively, without any system or calculation. Hopefully it doesn’t look too odd.

Color Change

I originally planned to natural, un-dyed veg tan welts again, as on my first pair. But for whatever reason, I decided to go ahead and dye these brown, with a plan to use tan thread down through to the outsole. That should up the pressure to make my time and make sure I don’t stitch too far out on the welt again.

[thenewreligion]

Direction - im trying ti figure this out too. One guy i talked to does both sorta - he’ll pass the awl from in to out until just the tip shows, then chase that out to in, but I think his argument was more about the shaft and curve of the awl over-stretching and weakening the holes.

Popping - I had to fix a couple of pops, frommer showed a method of creating a short tunnel through the more central part of the insole and running the thread through it then going back through the broken holdfast to return to the usual spacing in the upper. My only personal thought on that was make sure to do it twice in a row, that way the loop that makes that trip is pulling on a u-shaped chunk of insole rather than the thin roof of a single tunnel.

Length - ive seen a lot of variation too, since you’re doing 3/4 welt western style the only advice from the frommer book is make the channel the length of the forepart featherline to where it disappears on the medial side and reaches the shank on the lateral. That transition looks to be roughly where a line perpendicular to the axis of the shank would meet the end of the feather line on the medial side. Picture from Frommer book

[kemitchell]

@thenewreligion

the only advice from the frommer book is make the channel the length of the forepart featherline to where it disappears on the medial side and reaches the shank on the lateral

Thanks!

I’m likely looking at a somewhat awkward transition from welt to waist. Trying to shape the shank cover to smooth it out, but I don’t have a ton of space, due to the low block heel height.

[kemitchell]

Shanking

I filled the shank and heel cavities with sole leather scraps, carved in a little slot for bent-steel shanks from my pile, and cemented in some sheet cork in the foreparts. Alas, I didn’t get photos at that stage.

I covered the shanks with more scrap sole leather. I beveled them a bit, but not as much as I’ve seen some folks do for higher heels. These are roper lasts, for shoe-height heels, so I don’t have so much negative space. I was actually planning to do these leather-only, without steel shanks, but chickened out.

I am going to need to do something to ease the outsole transition from welt to shank.

Pegging Shank Covers

This was my first try at pegging. I figured it for a relatively safe chance, since these first pegs will get covered up by the outsole. They’re cemented down, too.

I made the pegs myself by hand. The recipe:

• a sample of birchwood meant for wood species collectors - $8 shipped in the US
• a tiny craft chisel from a set like this
• a pencil sharpener for the points
• a utility blade for cleanup

It isn’t easy making pegs of uniform thickness, or completely square. But my answer to that was just chipping off a lot of them and then sorting through for ones that seemed the right size for the width of the awl at the depth I was piercing.

I think my biggest lesson was that while it’s fine to make pegs all one inch or so long and then trim them, it’s best to trim before knocking them in. They seemed to drive in better when set in shorter.

It’s easier to run pegs through the pencil sharpener when they’re longer. So point first, trim to height second.

I saw a video of Kazuma Nishimura doing very fine pegs using round bamboo wood toothpicks. I found some cheap at my local Asian restaurant supply store and tried them out, but despite their narrower diameter, I didn’t have good luck banging them in. They just broke.

Looking back, I realize now that I tried the toothpicks before realizing I should systematically clip pegs to length before driving. Looking back at Kazuma’s video, that’s exactly what he did. He also appears to be using the round awl from the same cheap set of hobby wood chisels I mentioned above, for making birch pegs. He’s just pushing it in by hand, no hammer.

[thenewreligion]

Nice! Looks way better than my shank cover did ha!
Think you’ll keep making your own pegs? Can you share a picture of the pre-sorted pegs and some good ones? Really curious to see how that went

[kemitchell]

I got most of the way through outseaming and pegging one boot today.

I’m not entirely happy with how I cemented the outsole around the heel seat and waist. I overshot with the contact cement around where the welt ends, not realizing I wouldn’t be able to hammer the outsole into that sharp a curve.

This is just the “structural” work. I’m still thinking through my finishing plans.

Pegging

@thenewreligion, you asked about pegging, and that’s definitely on my mind now.

I actually ended up doing some experiments and then going ahead with the bamboo chopsticks, like I saw in a Nishimura video I linked above. If I’m honest, that was probably partly due to them being so convenient and consistent. I’d basically run out of really good, fully made pegs from doing the shank covers, so the premade options was extra tempting.

This is still my first fair pegging, so I wouldn’t really be the one to ask. But I suspect the bamboo “pegs” aren’t the best choice when joining many layers. They seem to hold up slightly less well to hard driving strikes than the birch pegs I made, breaking more easily. I’m thinking they’d’ve been a better choice for the shank cover, or for a welt or heel rand, with birch pegs for the outsole.

@thenewreligion, you mentioned photos of the birch peg process:

The chisel with the slats is the one I use for splitting. The brass pencil sharpener with the unpointed pegs is the one I used for pointing them, though I often finish with a blade.

You may notice one of the slats from the wood species sample has an unfinished saw line in it. I tried using a miniature version of a Japanese pull saw I have instead of splitting with a mini chisel, and while it cut cleaner, so far it’s way slower. I do think it could potentially give cleaner, more consistent results if you want really pretty pegs.

The finished/sharpened pegs pictured above are largely rejects, since all the best ones went into my shank covers. Some of what’s left are too wide for my current pegging awl, others misshapen or too thin. Now that you mentioned it, @thenewreligion, I will probably try making a few more tonight, to see if I can get more consistency.

The containers are 8-ounce plastic deli containers, by the way. I really like using these for a number of shoemaking whatsits. I have containers like this of unused and used but still straight-enough lasting tacks, for example. Another one full of wine corks for awl storage. Two others from my stray pucks of beeswax and paraffin. The rims eventually crack, but only after a lot of opening and reopening. They stack really neatly, are mostly clear, can be easily labeled, and come cheap in bulk.

[kemitchell]

Notes on Hidden Channel in Outsole

I decided to try the style of hiding the stitching channel on the underside of the outsole by incising a flap all the way to the edge of the outsole, turning it up, stitching underneath, then cementing back down. This as opposed to incising down at an angle, starting from the bottom of the insole.

A few notes there:

• Piercing a test hole on the inside welt end to gauge how far in from the edge of the outsole it would pierce was a good idea. It was also a good idea to measure how far that hole came in from the edge, then lightly scribe a line the same distance all around with a compass, and use that line as a guide for how far in to incise the flap.’

• I nicked the flap in a couple spots. I also wasn’t terribly consistent about cutting a uniform height up from the bottom surface of the insole. Next time I will try sticking with a single-bevel, chisel-style knife and pulling the flap open more aggressively as I go.

• I have a few wine corks glued to stick handles that proved very useful for pushing against the bottom of the outsole while piercing holes. With all the moisture, the outsole leather was bending away from the awl a fair bit, even freshly honed and lubricated.

• I should not have gone ahead and run a gum tool / stitching groover the same distance from the edge of the outsole all around. In certain areas, especially around the toe, the holes pierced farther in. Better to pierce the holes, then connect them with the stitching groover.

• Don’t stab yourself in the hand with a square awl. I was better about cleaning up all the blood before touching the boots again this time.

• I pre-pierced holes all the way around, then went back and stitched. I think I pierced many of the first holes too shallow, but even some of the later holes, where I pushed the awl all the way through, needed to be pierced again to open up for the needles. Especially working cased outsole weather, it’s probably way faster to pierce and stitch as you go.

• I used Aquilim 315 cement to close down the flap, instead of waiting for Barge to dry. Having some working time made it easy to really flatten out the flap with a bone folder.

• I was excited to start trimming the outsole around the welt down to final size right after stitching, but the outsole flap was still damp from the cement. Best to wait for it to dry first, so it doesn’t slide around or bend away from the knife so much.

[thenewreligion]

Sole stitching looks really good, consistent. Thanks fir showing the peg pictures. I kind if assumed it was undoable for an individual maker but now that i see this Ive got no excuse not to try!
I feel like shop organization could be a whole topic in itself. Ive tried and failed a few systems but they tend to be defeated by my hoarding tendencies… best i can do is descend into utter chaos for a few days then suck it up and have a cleaning day

[kemitchell]

Outseaming

@thenewreligion

Sole stitching looks really good, consistent.

There are one or two spots where I didn’t get it just right, but overall I was surprisingly happy with this round.

On my first original pair, and on some of the factory shoes I converted to handwelt, I set the outseam stitches way too far out from the featherline. I was trying to avoid that this time, and I think I did. I probably could have gone even closer.

I marked the holes with a saddle-style overstitch wheel, 6 stitches per inch. I then made a small mistake by dotting each of those prick marks with a silver gel pen, instead of a scratch awl or a bone folder, to make them more visible. That left me with little dots all along my welt that I now need to dye over.

Making Pegs

@thenewreligion

Thanks fir showing the peg pictures. I kind if assumed it was undoable for an individual maker but now that i see this Ive got no excuse not to try!

I think it’s totally possible to make pegs yourself. I did another round of it last night. The big caveat is that it’s fiddly, time-consuming work.

Really going at it for an hour or so, I wound up using the small chisel just to split the slats into little sticks. From there, I quit using the chisel and pencil sharpener and just went at it with a utility blade. It actually helped with splitting when the blade dulled a bit.

I checked my notes on what sizes of pegs people used, and cross-referenced that to Blau Ring size chart—and converted them to a wiki page here on the forum—to get more specific about the dimensions I should go for. The upshot was that most sources I have seem to like a little over 2mm wide through the outsole and a little under 3mm for heel lifts. If I make them all 1 inch long to start, I can always trim them down shorter before use.

[kemitchell]

Mistake: Too Much Curve in Heel Seat

The curve in the heel seat part of my shank cover, made worse by stacking on the outsole, has now made flattening the heel quite a job. I’m making on low-heeled roper lasts, so there isn’t a whole lot of heel height in which to work.

I ended up making the first heel lift, closest to the insole, a horseshoe-shaped split lift, rather than a complete slab of leather. Even so, I’m going to end up flattening the underside of the next lift, too, to take up the remaining curve.

I should have flattened the heel seat of the shank cover more, and also flattened the heel part of the outsole more.

All of this goes back to my decision to stop the welts behind the joints and do a shank cover, rather than welting back to the heel breast and keeping everything flat. I knew that’d be risky without big riding-boot-style heels to work under, but I wanted to try the style and figured I could keep an eye on clearances as I went.

[thenewreligion]

I think its pretty normal to do the horseshoe shaped first lift in cowboy style heels, at least Ive seen it a bunch, although like you said on shorter heels it feels like you have to make that transition in a rush. My current little kid heels are only 1/2” and my seat is very round so wish me luck… But the book I’m following they even have you start with three triangular-profile scraps from the 5:1 skiver arranged to create a horseshoe. Although I’m not doing that cause I think it looks ugly versus just a single piece
Also, and it feels awkward to talk about Lisa in the third person since she might be lurking anywhere But her excellent blog post on shank covers talks about thinking about them in three parts, including keeping the heel seat flatter to make building the heels easier. But suffice to say I tried and failed to take her advice on the heels

Shank covers

[kemitchell]

I hadn’t seen that post yet. @Customboots has quite the back catalog!

@thenewreligion

Also, and it feels awkward to talk about Lisa in the third person since she might be lurking anywhere

I agree. And that’s my fault. Bugging Lisa for a bunch of tips I’m sure she’d shared a hundred times by e-mail was part of my inspiration for stepping up and hosting this new forum. But I don’t want to seem like I’m entitled to anybody’s company here. Especially Lisa: I’ve sent a few dollars her way, but still feel I’m netting out in her debt.

Back on Round Heel Seats

Thanks for notes and encouragement, @thenewreligion. I took some time today, bit the bullet, and just ripped off the lifts I’d already pegged on so far. I had a good think on it, and decided to try just making the split lift / rand / rhan / horseshoe an even thinner horseshoe shape. Same amount of leather filling in around the edges, but even less in the middle, where it just stacks up. I also marked my heel breast lines and sandedrasped down the outsole a bit through the seat. Not to make it flat, but just a little flatter.

Things seem to be stacking up nicer since. I’m still afraid I might have do more clamping and leveling than I’d like in the end.

[Customboots]

Whoops, here are words so the forum will agree this is an actual post.